Post by El Supremo on Jan 14, 2011 14:29:17 GMT -5
Rules for Building Fleets
Eligibility of Fleets:
Factions heads are are allowed to fleets as needed for a game when the need arises. This is to be followed by all factions and orders. To keep things realistic, Orders such as the Jedi and Sith are limited in the type ships available for use while the Galactic Alliance (GA) and Reconstructed Galactic Empire (RGE) can realistically afford capital ships. For example:
- The Jedi don't have a standing fleet in any film or novel, save a fleet of starfighters, freighters and frigates at best.
- The Sith have had a war machine in the past in the throws of their height in power but they are currently in hidding in canon and don't have the destroyers and cruisers that they once had.
- The GA and the RGE, being galactic governing bodies, can easily purchase and maintain a fleet of ships ranging from starfighters to capital ships.
Be aware that any fleet built is subject to approval by a game moderator.
Build Point System:
Each faction can build a 'fleet' as needed for a game with a total 30 build points. Personal fleets are not allowed. All fleets must stay within the 30pt build limit, you don't have to use all your points but you cannot spend more than 30pts.
Sides:
Sides are determined by Faction alignment and alliances. If two Factions form an alliance it is considered one 'side' and therefore will fall under certain restrictions for RP battles.
-Only one SSD per side/Faction at any engagement.
-Only two fleets per side/Faction at any engagement
How to Attack:
Please make a post detailing your fleet moving into attack positions and post to the opposing Leader's PM or in the CBox to allow the leader to muster a defense force. Since there is a real world out there, it is suggested that if you want to launch an attack, you should contact the Faction leader/player and work out a time that is mutually agreeable for the RP (otherwise you just might piss someone off and be ignored). In the instance of major inter-faction battles it is suggested that a check-in period occur to allow for player arrival and proper set up for the RP.
Super Star Destroyers and Engagements:
Since its impossible, not to mention absurd, for everyone to have a SSD; Factions are limited to 1 SSD-class ship per organization.
Reinforcements:
These are created by the leader of the faction. They may be called when fleet is at 1/4 nominal size and may not be greater than 1/2 the fleet it is replacing.
Shipyards and repair shops:
Regenerates points on a weekly basis per shipyard. The Shipyard must be a Faction controlled Shipyard.
Personal Ships:
Personal ships (i.e. starfighter, freighter, etc) are exempt from from the point system.
Faction Appropriate Vessels
When building fleets for your games, please remember to keep the ships in your fleet faction/organization appropriate. Reference fleet formations and make ups on Wookieepedia as a good source of info.
As a convenience, here is a set of links to appropriate fleet structure and ship-listings for each faction. Note, the data in the following is for informational purposes as a useful guide. Please do not use these as an excuse to circumvent the rules.
Imperial Fleet Types
Imperial Fleet Classes
New Republic Defense Fleet
Galactic Alliance Defense Fleet
Jedi Feet
Kuat Fleet
Mandalorian Fleet
Yuuzhaan Vong *Yet to be Added*
Black Sun Fleet
Sith Fleet
Non-canon vessels
Non-canon vessels, otherwise referred to as player created vessels, must have a write up with basic ship statistics and general description.
•Manufacturer: --Who built it--
•Class: --What kind of ship is it; starfighter, bomber, corvette, capital--
•Model: --What is this ship type called; ST-92 Stealth Star, HAB-75 Hellraiser... what?--
•Size: --What are the ships dimensions?--
•Hyperdrive rating --How fast can the ship travel through hyperspace; please list primary and secondary hyperdrive systems; secondary must be at least 5 classes lower than the primary.--
•Shielding: --Equiped or not--
•Sensor systems: --Equiped or not--
•Armament: --What kind of weapons does it have--
•Crew: --How many people does it take to run--
•Minimum crew: --Whats the minimum ammount needed to run the ship--
•Passengers: --How many can it carry, if any--
•Cargo capacity: --How much can it transport; in tons please.
•Consumables: --How long can it stay is space without running out of supplys--
•Other systems: --Are there any special systems abourd the ship; cloaking device, advance sensor systems, stealth systems, special hull plating, etc etc--
•General description: --Give a description of what the ship looks like, include key characteristics to give other readers an idea of what they are looking at. If you have an image of what you want it to look like, please include it--
Starships w/ Point Totals
Eclipse-class/Soverign-Class SSD, Koros-Strohna: 7 points
Executor-class/Vengeance-class SSD, Viscount-class SSD, Kor Chokk: 5 points
Imperial I/II-class SD, Victory II-class SD, MC-80, MC-90, Miid ro'ik, Uro-ik v'alh: 4 points
Victory I-class SD, Interdictors: 3 points
Dreadnaught Heavy cruiser, Gladiator-class SD, Suuv Ban D'Krid: 2 points
2 Frigates, Corvettes: 1 point
5 Squads of fighters (i.e. TIE/In/Interceptors, X-/Y-Wing, Coralskippers): 1 point
Exception(s): StealthX fighters, TIE Advanced fighters, Clawcraft fighters or *non-canon created starfighters (*must have a write up and be approved): 2 squads per point. Carrier role ships come with an auto-compliment of two squadrons. (either 2 fighter, 2 bomber or 1 fighter 1 bomber). Additional fighters and bombers must be purchased with build points.
General Space Combat information
In order to write a convincing space battle in RP, its important to remember what the Maker used as reference when making Star Wars. The naval tactics that Lucas used are largely based on the battleship era, with some hint of tactics from the early aircraft carrier era. Consider the following when RPing a space battle:
•Boarding is not a useful combat tactic, and only occurs after the target vessel has already been disabled (as seen in ANH), or has already surrendered. This notion is slightly debunked with the introduction of the Yuuzhan Vong Dread weapon, which can attach itself to the hull of an enemy ship and deploy troops or suck out the occupants.
•Ramming is not a useful combat tactic, and is never used or even attempted in any of the canon films. Three ISD's accidentally rammed the Executor while decelerating from hyperspace (ref: SWE), but they merely exploded against its shields. Official literature describes "robot ramships", but these weapons (essentially huge guided missiles) are designed for deceit and piracy rather than wholesale warfare, and were used once in battle, against a light cruiser. The only time you will ever use this maneuver for the most part is if you decide to sacrifice your ship when its badly damaged and if the enemies shields are down.
•Battle lines are not used. Fleets travel in formations which break up when combat is joined, as seen in ROTJ and ROTS. The Rebel and Imperial fleets began exchanging long-range fire without any regard for formation, although Emperor Palpatine's decisions ultimately led to an Imperial defeat despite what was probably superior firepower. Piett's ships engaged long-range fire with the Rebel fleet as described in the ROTJ novel, but they apparently targeted smaller ships before larger ships for the purpose of prolonging Palpatine's dramatic demonstration. Even Jerjerrod chose his targets in the same manner, aiming the first superlaser blast at the Liberty rather than the far more massive and heavily armed Rebel flagship Home One. On the other hand, Ackbar wisely concentrated his fleet's firepower on the Imperial flagship Executor first.
•Tactics of maneuver are almost non-existent. Capital ships simply exchange fire with enemy capital ships, without regard for formations or "flanking", "encirclement", or "breakthrough" maneuvers. Flanking is mainly done with gravity well projectors and Dovin Basals as they can be projected in such a way that keeps enemies from trying to escape.
•Torpedoes are not used in capital ship combat. Despite apocryphal descriptions to the contrary, there are no canon sightings or descriptions of any capship missiles. Capital ship combat seems to be conducted exclusively with turbolasers, which isn't surprising given the lack of damage caused by proton torpedoes in ANH (Red Leader's torpedoes barely scratched the DS exhaust port surface structure) and TPM (Naboo torpedoes were ineffective against the TradeFed battleship).
•Fighters exist but they are incapable of carrying the fight to the enemy unaided, so a fighter attack can only complement the big guns, rather than replacing them. This was seen most strikingly in the beginning stages of the Battle of Endor, when hordes of Imperial fighters and bombers attacked without support and swarmed over the Rebel fleet, but were unable to destroy or seriously damage a single warship. It was seen again in TPM, when the Naboo fighter squadron fought a hopeless battle to destroy a TradeFed battleship (a battle that Qui-Gon obviously expected them to lose) despite having the element of surprise (the battleship didn't launch its own fighters until the attackers were already within naked-eye visual range).
•Combat can occur at very long visual ranges (made longer by the sheer size of Imperial warships, which makes them easier to see at a distance), as seen in TESB when the Rebel ground defenses engaged Imperial ships in orbit. It was seen again in ROTJ when Rebel and Imperial warships exchanged fire at long visual range and then closed to less than 10 km ("point-blank range") as the battle intensified.
Again, some might counter these arguments with some kind of technobabble theory, but again, what you see is what you get. They have fighters, but they can't use them the way terrestrial navies used them. They have torpedoes, but as anyone can see from ROTJ and TPM, they're obviously not ship-killers the way they were for submarines. They have guided missiles, but those missiles didn't turn space combat into long-range affairs of dueling missile platforms, the way they did for terrestrial navies and aircraft. It's not enough to affix a label to a particular weapon and assume it's precisely analogous to terrestrial equivalents; you must look at the way it's used, before you can begin to guess what it can do.
The use of concentrated gunnery tactics in conjunction with fighter harassment in Star Wars leads us to the following conclusions:
1. Anti-ship weaponry in Star Wars is combat-effective at ranges of at least several hundred kilometers based on the unimportance of battle formations, even at long visual ranges such as those seen in ROTJ. This was demonstrated when the Rebel ion cannon engaged ISD's in the Battle of Hoth, and again when the DS2 superlaser engaged Rebel cruisers in the Battle of Endor.
2. Weapons based on turbolaser technology dominate the battlefield in Star Wars, with scalability ranging as low as a hand blaster and as high as the awesome planet-destroying Death Star superlaser. Torpedoes are relatively unimportant, and seem to serve only as starfighter weapons.
3. Starfighters, by virtue of their weak armament, cannot successfully attack capital ships without capship support. There is some apocryphal literature to support the opposite notion, but it originates entirely from the notoriously propagandistic New Republic descriptions of the exaggerated exploits of Wedge Antilles and his X-wing squadron. Canon support for this notion is nonexistent, and in the Battle of ROTJ, the fighters were used merely to "finish off" ships which have already been disabled by turbolaser cannonade, such as the Imperial communications ship and the Executor (also see the novel, in which we heard Ackbar informing his bridge crew that "if we can knock out their shields, our fighters might stand a chance against them"- a far cry from the apocryphal nonsense of fighter squadrons pummeling the shields of warships).
"Do not fear, these are just temporary until they are finalized"
Eligibility of Fleets:
Factions heads are are allowed to fleets as needed for a game when the need arises. This is to be followed by all factions and orders. To keep things realistic, Orders such as the Jedi and Sith are limited in the type ships available for use while the Galactic Alliance (GA) and Reconstructed Galactic Empire (RGE) can realistically afford capital ships. For example:
- The Jedi don't have a standing fleet in any film or novel, save a fleet of starfighters, freighters and frigates at best.
- The Sith have had a war machine in the past in the throws of their height in power but they are currently in hidding in canon and don't have the destroyers and cruisers that they once had.
- The GA and the RGE, being galactic governing bodies, can easily purchase and maintain a fleet of ships ranging from starfighters to capital ships.
Be aware that any fleet built is subject to approval by a game moderator.
Build Point System:
Each faction can build a 'fleet' as needed for a game with a total 30 build points. Personal fleets are not allowed. All fleets must stay within the 30pt build limit, you don't have to use all your points but you cannot spend more than 30pts.
Sides:
Sides are determined by Faction alignment and alliances. If two Factions form an alliance it is considered one 'side' and therefore will fall under certain restrictions for RP battles.
-Only one SSD per side/Faction at any engagement.
-Only two fleets per side/Faction at any engagement
How to Attack:
Please make a post detailing your fleet moving into attack positions and post to the opposing Leader's PM or in the CBox to allow the leader to muster a defense force. Since there is a real world out there, it is suggested that if you want to launch an attack, you should contact the Faction leader/player and work out a time that is mutually agreeable for the RP (otherwise you just might piss someone off and be ignored). In the instance of major inter-faction battles it is suggested that a check-in period occur to allow for player arrival and proper set up for the RP.
Super Star Destroyers and Engagements:
Since its impossible, not to mention absurd, for everyone to have a SSD; Factions are limited to 1 SSD-class ship per organization.
Reinforcements:
These are created by the leader of the faction. They may be called when fleet is at 1/4 nominal size and may not be greater than 1/2 the fleet it is replacing.
Shipyards and repair shops:
Regenerates points on a weekly basis per shipyard. The Shipyard must be a Faction controlled Shipyard.
Personal Ships:
Personal ships (i.e. starfighter, freighter, etc) are exempt from from the point system.
Faction Appropriate Vessels
When building fleets for your games, please remember to keep the ships in your fleet faction/organization appropriate. Reference fleet formations and make ups on Wookieepedia as a good source of info.
As a convenience, here is a set of links to appropriate fleet structure and ship-listings for each faction. Note, the data in the following is for informational purposes as a useful guide. Please do not use these as an excuse to circumvent the rules.
Imperial Fleet Types
Imperial Fleet Classes
New Republic Defense Fleet
Galactic Alliance Defense Fleet
Jedi Feet
Kuat Fleet
Mandalorian Fleet
Yuuzhaan Vong *Yet to be Added*
Black Sun Fleet
Sith Fleet
Non-canon vessels
Non-canon vessels, otherwise referred to as player created vessels, must have a write up with basic ship statistics and general description.
•Manufacturer: --Who built it--
•Class: --What kind of ship is it; starfighter, bomber, corvette, capital--
•Model: --What is this ship type called; ST-92 Stealth Star, HAB-75 Hellraiser... what?--
•Size: --What are the ships dimensions?--
•Hyperdrive rating --How fast can the ship travel through hyperspace; please list primary and secondary hyperdrive systems; secondary must be at least 5 classes lower than the primary.--
•Shielding: --Equiped or not--
•Sensor systems: --Equiped or not--
•Armament: --What kind of weapons does it have--
•Crew: --How many people does it take to run--
•Minimum crew: --Whats the minimum ammount needed to run the ship--
•Passengers: --How many can it carry, if any--
•Cargo capacity: --How much can it transport; in tons please.
•Consumables: --How long can it stay is space without running out of supplys--
•Other systems: --Are there any special systems abourd the ship; cloaking device, advance sensor systems, stealth systems, special hull plating, etc etc--
•General description: --Give a description of what the ship looks like, include key characteristics to give other readers an idea of what they are looking at. If you have an image of what you want it to look like, please include it--
Starships w/ Point Totals
Eclipse-class/Soverign-Class SSD, Koros-Strohna: 7 points
Executor-class/Vengeance-class SSD, Viscount-class SSD, Kor Chokk: 5 points
Imperial I/II-class SD, Victory II-class SD, MC-80, MC-90, Miid ro'ik, Uro-ik v'alh: 4 points
Victory I-class SD, Interdictors: 3 points
Dreadnaught Heavy cruiser, Gladiator-class SD, Suuv Ban D'Krid: 2 points
2 Frigates, Corvettes: 1 point
5 Squads of fighters (i.e. TIE/In/Interceptors, X-/Y-Wing, Coralskippers): 1 point
Exception(s): StealthX fighters, TIE Advanced fighters, Clawcraft fighters or *non-canon created starfighters (*must have a write up and be approved): 2 squads per point. Carrier role ships come with an auto-compliment of two squadrons. (either 2 fighter, 2 bomber or 1 fighter 1 bomber). Additional fighters and bombers must be purchased with build points.
All persons wishing to build a Fleet for a game, please contact a Mod for approval.
Thank you.
Thank you.
General Space Combat information
In order to write a convincing space battle in RP, its important to remember what the Maker used as reference when making Star Wars. The naval tactics that Lucas used are largely based on the battleship era, with some hint of tactics from the early aircraft carrier era. Consider the following when RPing a space battle:
•Boarding is not a useful combat tactic, and only occurs after the target vessel has already been disabled (as seen in ANH), or has already surrendered. This notion is slightly debunked with the introduction of the Yuuzhan Vong Dread weapon, which can attach itself to the hull of an enemy ship and deploy troops or suck out the occupants.
•Ramming is not a useful combat tactic, and is never used or even attempted in any of the canon films. Three ISD's accidentally rammed the Executor while decelerating from hyperspace (ref: SWE), but they merely exploded against its shields. Official literature describes "robot ramships", but these weapons (essentially huge guided missiles) are designed for deceit and piracy rather than wholesale warfare, and were used once in battle, against a light cruiser. The only time you will ever use this maneuver for the most part is if you decide to sacrifice your ship when its badly damaged and if the enemies shields are down.
•Battle lines are not used. Fleets travel in formations which break up when combat is joined, as seen in ROTJ and ROTS. The Rebel and Imperial fleets began exchanging long-range fire without any regard for formation, although Emperor Palpatine's decisions ultimately led to an Imperial defeat despite what was probably superior firepower. Piett's ships engaged long-range fire with the Rebel fleet as described in the ROTJ novel, but they apparently targeted smaller ships before larger ships for the purpose of prolonging Palpatine's dramatic demonstration. Even Jerjerrod chose his targets in the same manner, aiming the first superlaser blast at the Liberty rather than the far more massive and heavily armed Rebel flagship Home One. On the other hand, Ackbar wisely concentrated his fleet's firepower on the Imperial flagship Executor first.
•Tactics of maneuver are almost non-existent. Capital ships simply exchange fire with enemy capital ships, without regard for formations or "flanking", "encirclement", or "breakthrough" maneuvers. Flanking is mainly done with gravity well projectors and Dovin Basals as they can be projected in such a way that keeps enemies from trying to escape.
•Torpedoes are not used in capital ship combat. Despite apocryphal descriptions to the contrary, there are no canon sightings or descriptions of any capship missiles. Capital ship combat seems to be conducted exclusively with turbolasers, which isn't surprising given the lack of damage caused by proton torpedoes in ANH (Red Leader's torpedoes barely scratched the DS exhaust port surface structure) and TPM (Naboo torpedoes were ineffective against the TradeFed battleship).
•Fighters exist but they are incapable of carrying the fight to the enemy unaided, so a fighter attack can only complement the big guns, rather than replacing them. This was seen most strikingly in the beginning stages of the Battle of Endor, when hordes of Imperial fighters and bombers attacked without support and swarmed over the Rebel fleet, but were unable to destroy or seriously damage a single warship. It was seen again in TPM, when the Naboo fighter squadron fought a hopeless battle to destroy a TradeFed battleship (a battle that Qui-Gon obviously expected them to lose) despite having the element of surprise (the battleship didn't launch its own fighters until the attackers were already within naked-eye visual range).
•Combat can occur at very long visual ranges (made longer by the sheer size of Imperial warships, which makes them easier to see at a distance), as seen in TESB when the Rebel ground defenses engaged Imperial ships in orbit. It was seen again in ROTJ when Rebel and Imperial warships exchanged fire at long visual range and then closed to less than 10 km ("point-blank range") as the battle intensified.
Again, some might counter these arguments with some kind of technobabble theory, but again, what you see is what you get. They have fighters, but they can't use them the way terrestrial navies used them. They have torpedoes, but as anyone can see from ROTJ and TPM, they're obviously not ship-killers the way they were for submarines. They have guided missiles, but those missiles didn't turn space combat into long-range affairs of dueling missile platforms, the way they did for terrestrial navies and aircraft. It's not enough to affix a label to a particular weapon and assume it's precisely analogous to terrestrial equivalents; you must look at the way it's used, before you can begin to guess what it can do.
The use of concentrated gunnery tactics in conjunction with fighter harassment in Star Wars leads us to the following conclusions:
1. Anti-ship weaponry in Star Wars is combat-effective at ranges of at least several hundred kilometers based on the unimportance of battle formations, even at long visual ranges such as those seen in ROTJ. This was demonstrated when the Rebel ion cannon engaged ISD's in the Battle of Hoth, and again when the DS2 superlaser engaged Rebel cruisers in the Battle of Endor.
2. Weapons based on turbolaser technology dominate the battlefield in Star Wars, with scalability ranging as low as a hand blaster and as high as the awesome planet-destroying Death Star superlaser. Torpedoes are relatively unimportant, and seem to serve only as starfighter weapons.
3. Starfighters, by virtue of their weak armament, cannot successfully attack capital ships without capship support. There is some apocryphal literature to support the opposite notion, but it originates entirely from the notoriously propagandistic New Republic descriptions of the exaggerated exploits of Wedge Antilles and his X-wing squadron. Canon support for this notion is nonexistent, and in the Battle of ROTJ, the fighters were used merely to "finish off" ships which have already been disabled by turbolaser cannonade, such as the Imperial communications ship and the Executor (also see the novel, in which we heard Ackbar informing his bridge crew that "if we can knock out their shields, our fighters might stand a chance against them"- a far cry from the apocryphal nonsense of fighter squadrons pummeling the shields of warships).
"Do not fear, these are just temporary until they are finalized"
